Get in the Game Podcast from Jury Analyst
Get in the Game Podcast from Jury Analyst
Essential Wisdom for Rising Attorneys
What separates truly exceptional trial lawyers from the rest? It's rarely what they teach in law school.
Six accomplished courtroom veterans—Brian Panish, Sean Flaherty, Keith Mitnick, Jason Leonard, John Ustall, and Joshua Koskoff—share candid insights drawn from decades of high-stakes litigation. Their collective wisdom forms a practical roadmap for attorneys at any stage, but especially those working to establish themselves in the challenging world of trial advocacy.
The journey begins earlier than many realize. These attorneys emphasize the transformative power of immersing yourself in legal practice during law school, absorbing the unwritten rules and developing intuitive skills through proximity and observation. Yet they remain refreshingly honest about the timeline—expect to "tread water" for several years before hitting your stride. Even veterans with decades of experience admit to experiencing pre-trial anxiety. The difference? They've learned to function effectively despite it.
For new lawyers preparing for their first courtroom experiences, the advice challenges conventional wisdom. Perfection isn't necessary—authenticity is. When you thoroughly prepare and genuinely believe in your case, minor technical imperfections actually make you more relatable to jurors. This permission to be human while maintaining high professional standards liberates attorneys to focus on what truly matters: thorough preparation, strategic case framing, and passionate advocacy.
Beyond the courtroom, success requires intentional networking, exceptional client service, and embracing collaborative approaches. The strongest advocates recognize that mentorship and knowledge-sharing create collective strength against well-resourced opponents. Through every challenge, maintaining your authentic voice while incorporating lessons from those who came before creates a sustainable foundation for a meaningful career in trial law.
Ready to transform your approach to trial advocacy? Subscribe now for more practical insights from the profession's most accomplished practitioners.
All right, here we go. Are we ready?
Speaker 1:Today we are jumping into a really rich collection of insights shared by one of our listeners. It's wisdom drawn from conversations with several very accomplished trial lawyers.
Speaker 3:That's right. We've got input here from Brian Panish and Sean Flaherty, keith Mitnick, jason Leonard, john Ustall and Joshua Koskoff too Leonard John Ustall and Joshua Koskoff too and they've shared quite a bit their experiences, lessons learned you know often the hard way and some really practical tips.
Speaker 1:Especially for young lawyers, right, those just starting out or aiming for success in the courtroom. And just well, the profession overall.
Speaker 3:Exactly, our goal here is really to pull out the essential advice you need. It's about the realities, the actual practice of building a legal career.
Speaker 1:Yeah, facing the hurdles, finding your footing. This isn't just theory. Okay, let's get into it.
Speaker 2:Somebody that's going to law school. They're just getting out of law school. They want to represent plaintiffs. They want to get in the plaintiff personal injury business. Sure, what advice do you have for them?
Speaker 4:The first thing. I think that's crucial and is here, but some of our best lawyers have started working with us while they're in law school. So you know I started here, like I said, when I was in law school. I can go down the list, but I probably we have 42 lawyers. I would say a quarter of them, maybe more, worked here when they were in law school. Period of time and hearing it and knowing it innately in you and learning the language and learning how to speak to clients and learning how to deal with people and that, to me, is stuff that, although you're getting paid not as much as you'd want to be at that point in time the fact that you're around it and learning it is invaluable for practice later.
Speaker 1:So the first big theme I think that really comes through is this idea of starting early, getting your feet wet as soon as possible.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Sean Flaherty. For instance, he talked about how some of their best lawyers actually started working at the firm while they were still in law school.
Speaker 1:And the value there wasn't just like ticking a box, it was about immersion.
Speaker 3:Precisely it's this idea that just being around the practice day in, day out, you pick things up, you learn the language, how to deal with people, you get this sort of innate understanding.
Speaker 5:I think of it as years, so I think the first, like five or six years, I felt like I really was just treading water and that's when I got this case. I tried to withdraw. We got a wonderful, huge verdict. At the time still would be a big verdict of $10 million for this truck driver, a 50 year old guy who didn't have much of an earning capacity and I don't know if this is your experience, but it really doesn't take the best. The best cure for an insecure lawyer is a big verdict. It just makes you feel like you can do it and that kind of confidence. I think that was sort of the turning point for me.
Speaker 3:It's almost like learning by osmosis over time, something you just can't replicate from books alone.
Speaker 1:That makes sense, that practical feel. But they're also realistic about the timeline, aren't they? It's not instant expertise, oh, definitely not Joshua Koskoff mentioned.
Speaker 3:it could take, you know, maybe five, maybe even six years before you truly feel like you're not just treading water, before you feel like you've got your head above water.
Speaker 1:Okay, so the takeaway for someone listening who's maybe in law school now or just starting out it's patience partly.
Speaker 3:Don't expect to be an expert right away, but also be proactive. Seek out those chances to learn by doing, even if it means balancing school and work, like Sean Flaherty suggested.
Speaker 1:Right. Show that capability early. Commit to the long game Now, once you're in it. Whether you started early or not, another thing comes through loud and clear Mental toughness. Being a trial lawyer, well, it takes grit.
Speaker 3:Oh, absolutely. That was a constant refrain. You cannot be afraid to lose period.
Speaker 1:One lawyer, I think, put it very bluntly If losing one case just crushes you, you're probably in the wrong field.
Speaker 6:Everyone's a trial lawyer up until about a week out and I think that's what separates trial lawyers from other lawyers is that last week, where the anxiety and the apprehensions and the fear of am I going to be able to ride this bike again? And once you get in you realize that's just going to happen and after 25 years that still happens. How am I going to do this? And I think for them it's just to face that fear and once you overcome it a few times, you're still going to have them. It's just you're going to know that you can overcome them, yeah you need thick skin.
Speaker 3:You take the hit, you learn from it and you get back up the next day ready to go again. It's just well part of the territory.
Speaker 1:And what about trial anxiety? That seems like a big one, even for veterans.
Speaker 3:It is. Jason Leonard talked about that fear kicking in you know, the week before trial, that feeling of can I still do this, can I ride this bike again? But facing that fear is sort of the job description, isn't it? It really is, and the good news he suggested is that once you push through it a few times, you learn you can survive it. The anxiety might never vanish completely, but you know you can manage it.
Speaker 2:I'm a young lawyer. I'm trying my first case. How do I get prepared? What do I read? What do I need to do?
Speaker 7:What do I need to do? Let me tell you the first thing I do. I'm going to give you a little pep talk with younger lawyers. Remember this it's not about being pretty, and I don't mean whether you're handsome or a pretty lady I'm talking about. It's not about perfection in the courtroom and you want to be perfect when you're young. It's not going to be perfect, it's just not. This is a job that takes repetitive over over an. Experience and instincts come from making bad decisions and good, and it starts becoming more automatic. You're not going to have that Earl. Here's the good news. You don't need it. It's not about being pretty. You know what it's about. It's about being prepared, having thought through and having a good game plan and picking the right words and phrases, asking winning questions of the jury, and you know what else matters. There's the being prepared and one more thing believing, I was gonna say your integrity.
Speaker 2:Number one thing is if you don't believe it, the jury's never gonna believe it Absolutely. So you walk in God and you got that passion, it's gonna go a to believe it Absolutely. So you walk in young and if you believe it and you've got that passion, it's going to go a long way towards getting there, amen.
Speaker 7:You walk in young, but you walk in believing, passionate and have some integrity and you know what All the little sloppiness is charming because they know you care, they know you believe and you came with a good game plan.
Speaker 1:And, interestingly, there's this idea that the losses themselves can be powerful pitchers.
Speaker 3:Very powerful. Keith Mitnick spoke about this how some of the best learning, the real creativity, comes not just from the wins, but from digging into the losses. Why did it happen? How do we avoid that again?
Speaker 1:Don't just eat the bruises, as they say, but actually learn from them.
Speaker 3:Precisely Learn, adapt, improve.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you're tough. You're ready to learn from them Precisely, learn, adapt, improve. Okay, so you're tough. You're ready to learn from losses. What about that very first trial? The advice there was maybe a bit surprising. It's not about being perfect.
Speaker 3:Right, keith Mitnick really hit this point hard being pretty or flawless in court, especially when you're starting out, it's not necessary, it's not even expected.
Speaker 1:Because those trial instincts they come from experience right Years of it.
Speaker 3:Exactly, Repetition learning from good moves and bad ones. You won't have that right away, and that's okay.
Speaker 1:So what does matter then, for that first timer?
Speaker 3:Preparation. That's non-negotiable. Have a solid plan. Choose your words deliberately. Frame the case effectively. Do the groundwork.
Speaker 1:And maybe the biggest piece.
Speaker 3:Belief Passion. You have to genuinely, deeply believe in your case and your client. If you don't feel it, how can you expect the jury to?
Speaker 1:That makes sense. But how does that translate for a young lawyer who might feel, you know, a bit shaky?
Speaker 3:Well, Keith Mitnick had a great take on this. He suggested that if you walk in prepared and you truly believe and you show that passion, any little sloppiness actually becomes sort of charming.
Speaker 1:Interesting because the jury sees you care.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they see, you've done the work, you have a plan and you're invested. That conviction, that belief, combined with solid prep, that's the key combination, more than slickness.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's powerful. So shifting from the courtroom itself to like building your career foundation. There was some very practical advice there too.
Speaker 3:There was Sean Flaherty, for example. Really pushed networking constantly. Be social, get out, meet people, talk to people.
Speaker 1:And don't be shy about what you do.
Speaker 3:No, you need to let people know you're a trial lawyer. Use the phrase a scream from the mountaintop. You never know where a case or a connection might come from. Could even be opposing counsel someday.
Speaker 1:Treat everyone well and treat every client.
Speaker 3:Like they're your only client. That was another core rule from Sean Flaherty that dedication, striving for the best result for everyone. That's how you build trust and reputation.
Speaker 1:Makes sense. And what about technology? It seems unavoidable now.
Speaker 3:Absolutely essential. Jason Leonard observed that sometimes lawyers resist tech because they feel unsure about their basic trial skills. But once those skills solidify, they actively seek out tech because, well, it makes presenting a case easier and more impactful. It's a tool you need now.
Speaker 1:Got it. So network be known. Dedicate yourself to clients and embrace the tech.
Speaker 3:That's a good summary.
Speaker 1:Now, another thread running through all this was the importance of learning from others, mentorship and collaboration.
Speaker 3:Hugely important Having good teachers early on. That was highlighted as a massive advantage.
Speaker 1:And Keith Mitnick pointed out, not everyone gets that, so there's a sort of duty to pay it forward, right To share that knowledge.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, and senior lawyers can play such a crucial role. Jason Leonard described them almost like a psychic security blanket in court for younger lawyers, just knowing they're there for guidance.
Speaker 1:That feeling of backup and this connects to the bigger picture of collaboration, especially for plaintiff lawyers.
Speaker 3:Definitely, john you still talked about this particularly in tough cases against, you know, big, well-funded opponents like tobacco companies or large corporations. How do they win? By sharing Sharing documents, ideas, strategies, everything Working together.
Speaker 1:Because working in silos only helps the other side hide things.
Speaker 3:Exactly when lawyers pool their knowledge across different cases, they can piece together the full picture, connect the dots and expose the truth. It's about collective strength.
Speaker 1:That's a really compelling model. Okay, we also need to talk about just plain hard work. Seems like a given, but they really emphasized it.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, non-negotiable. John Flaherty's rule Work harder than you think you need to always.
Speaker 1:And that ability to handle a heavy load like juggling school and work early on, it demonstrates something important.
Speaker 3:It demonstrates capacity. It shows you can handle the demands.
Speaker 1:And sometimes the toughest cases, the ones that really push you, are the most formative.
Speaker 3:Right A crucible, as John Ustall put it. He talked about his first trial, a really complex GM fire case that took years. That kind of experience, while incredibly difficult, it forges your skills, your persistence.
Speaker 1:And learning can happen in unexpected ways too. I found John Ustall's experience serving on a jury fascinating.
Speaker 3:Me too, realizing, even as a a lawyer, how hard it was to track the evidence without knowing why it mattered from the very beginning.
Speaker 1:It changed his whole approach to opening statements, giving the jury that context up front so they understand the significance of what they're about to hear.
Speaker 3:Such a practical insight, gained from a totally different perspective.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Okay. One last area to touch on Legacy. For some lawyers there's a family history in the profession.
Speaker 3:Right. Joshua Koskoff talked about that pressure following in well-known footsteps, people making comparisons. You know he's not like his dad, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:That sounds like it could be a heavy weight.
Speaker 3:It certainly can be, but he also framed it as potentially positive. Those high expectations can actually be a standard to strive for, a motivator. So it's about acknowledging the past, but ultimately, filling your own shoes, finding your own way, your own voice, making your own contribution.
Speaker 1:Okay, wow, we've covered a ton here. Let's try to recap the core threads.
Speaker 3:Okay, so starting early that hands-on learning, building serious mental toughness, learning from losses.
Speaker 1:Prioritizing preparation and belief, especially early on, over trying to be perfect.
Speaker 3:Yes, Then the practical stuff networking, making yourself known, dedicating yourself to clients, embracing technology.
Speaker 1:The huge value of mentors and collaboration sharing knowledge, not working in isolation.
Speaker 3:And underlying it all Sheer hard work, taking on challenges and learning from every experience, even unexpected ones like jury duty.
Speaker 1:Plus navigating legacy, if that's part of your story.
Speaker 3:What really comes through is that success is an instant. It's built. It takes resilience, effort, learning constantly from wins and losses, and relying on the wisdom and support of others.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it feels like it's about more than just legal tactics. It's about building character, serving clients with real dedication and finding your authentic self within a very demanding field.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, which leads to a final thought and maybe something for you, the listener, to consider. In a world that's always changing, with new tech, new challenges, how will these core, timeless principles preparation beliefs, that mental grit, collaboration, that essential human connection, how will they continue to be the foundation for the next generation of truly successful lawyers?
Speaker 1:Something to think about as you navigate your own path.
